Dan wrote:
when can we meet again for next chat session... lots to chat about methinks...
Serena wrote:
What did you have in mind to talk about Dan?
Dan wrote:
re talking: logistics and crunch time for project ideas.
Ben wrote:
'crunch time for project ideas' is at least worth a shot... and seems to be where people are it, in light of Rhi's last post.
Any thoughts welcome, as it would be good to go into this weekend with an idea of how best to use it.
B
Dan wrote:
Hey guys,
I think the biggest thing we need to sort out is what we are actually hoping to achieve in Bundanon. We need to finally decide whether our initial idea of a "site-specific artwork" is feasible, realistic and still inspiring people.
My feeling is that these 2 weeks would be best spent as an initial exploration and workshopping of ideas. Given that the blog hasn't really taken off and that we've only really had 2 meetings about the project I don't feel I have enough idea about everyone's creative work and the way that they work to be able to head down to Bundanon and "make a high quality art work" in 2 weeks. I don't think it is a realistic goal and I think we will put far too much pressure on ourselves.
I'd be more keen to go back to our initial proposal and use this time as an exploration for working together. Explore a few different creative approaches, ideas etc. and then at the end of the 2 weeks look at what we've got, write a few reflective articles about "the collaborative process" to be published in a few different magazines and then decide if we have enough material and energy to put together a collaborative art work in the future. Perhaps even use the time to do some research on site-specific art work itself!!
My reluctance to still commit to an "end product" is three-fold:
1. 2 weeks is a VERY short time frame to come up with a complete product. Especially considering I've never worked with any of you before (except Rhi!). We'd have to be damned kick-arse for the proposed piece of art to be worth anything...
2. I have major issues attempting to create a "site-specific" art work. In my reading I've discovered just how politically-laden the word is and come to the realisation how naive we as a group are about the art form. I think it will be very difficult creating a piece of art in a new art form for the first time in only two weeks without it being ill-informed and naive
3. My approach to the creative process is very spontaneous and intuitive. I'd want to find a method for working in our group that caters for this approach in conjunction with approaches that suit others better. It is mostly by doing, being, talking, reading that I become inspired and productive. We've barely had any time to be together as a group since last year when we put in our application. So it won't really be until we're actually there that ideas will come rolling and bouncing for me. I need more flexibility to be able to feel comfortable with this project.
So this is where I'm at. Possibly not what some of you wanted to hear. But I'm still confident we can find a solution that suits everyone and respects everyone's needs and creative approaches.
Cheers,
Dan
Julian wrote:
Hey there,
I'm not feeling too dissimilar, Dan. My feeling is that our 'collaboration' should really properly begin with the residency.
I was chatting to Luke Jaaniste, one of my long-standing collaborators, and we both agreed that some of the most enjoyable and indeed productive times during our COMPOST days were when we simply went away somewhere for a week or two with no expectations but a great willingness to chat, absorb, play, explore and simply hang. We'd take gear, instruments, books, scores, DVDs and during that time ideas would start to flow organically, from the 'site' or the source if you like. I think for everyone's sanity it would be good to lower our expectations for Bundanon and likewise see it as a journey or process rather than as the only time in which to make a finished product.
Regarding Bundanon's expectation of what we'll do there, keep in mind that Damian Barbeler went to Bundanon in, I think, 2002 and he's only just handed in the piece that he started there a week ago. So I don't think there's any pressure to finish anything right away.
Regarding site-specific artwork, installation and environmental art I have a suggestion. Luke J has spent the last 5-10 years exploring the form and has offered to present to us a 3-hour lecture with images. All we'd need to do is cover the cost of him coming to Bundanon and put him up for a night or so. I'd estimate it'd cost about $50 for the train ticket from Sydney and food. This way we'd get some historical context and understand just exactly what world we'd be entering into. What do you think?
Jxx
Ben wrote:
hey all,
I'll start by pointing out how much I'm really looking forward to this, especially as the time draws nearer, just so anything to follow might be taken in the tone and spirit intended (ie excited and cheerful!)
Exploration and workshopping of ideas is likely to be a big part of our time at Bundanon, and the best balance of chatting and 'doing' should hopefully emerge early on. This should give each of us the chance to work in the way that we each work best - time to be inspired, time to create, time to reflect.
One thing I was quite puzzled by was the "make a high quality art work in 2 weeks" part of your email Dan. I don't really know where 'complete product' came from... it's not something I'd ever thought feasible or that any of us had expected. Far from it! My understanding has always been that this was a brain-storming, idea-forming and material gathering window, with the rest of the year to then hone/develop these ideas and the material into tangible 'outcomes'. Even if we were going in with some possible ideas as to the form of a particular project(s), I never heard it suggested we would have something done and dusted by the final day there.
Regarding the blog and the suggestion that 'it didn't take off' - I've got a few thoughts on that one. I figure people are finding it difficult to find the time for it, so perhaps briefer, more frequent posting is more appropriate? Also, given the resistance to having too much of an idea of outcomes before we go in, then there's in a way not so much to actually discuss there at the moment. My hope is that as our ideas flow and we come up with concepts and spark off each other, more post ideas will flow - moving from conceptual to actual.
The idea of it being a place for sketches and the like still appeals to me, and that's something that will flow from our Bundanon stay as we gather such material and come up with just such sketches. It may serve a stronger purpose once we are away from Bundanon and back working by ourselves, but in parallel - ie i would really hope to see comments on any parts of any works that people put there for discussion.
I'm quite keen to keep the pressure off too, but for me that will mean having a few ideas of things i would like to do/try, then exploring further those that come up while we're there. I too find inspiration in things i read/talk about/ see etc, but at some point need to turn that into something and it will help to have an idea of what form will best suit a group project. I have no intention of 'imposing' these on anyone and don't see this curtailing anyone's personal flexibility, it might just mean I'll be doing a few things that won't necessarily fit into a final group work - fine by me!
Out of curiosity, and in light the most recent emails, are people at least aiming for a concrete(ish) idea of what vein our project(s) are going to be in by the end of the fortnight? I'd personally be in favour of that and think that our difficulty in all meeting up would make that quite important for us to take the momentum of the fortnight with us.
I'd like to hear more about Dan's problems with 'site-specific' but am happy to wait until we next see each other - or perhaps you could point us to any material that might be appropriate reading in the meantime?
Julian, how much notice to you think Luke would need? It certainly sounds like a good idea if we're going to go down that path, but the sense from Dan's email is she's not as keen for that as perhaps before. We should decide on that soon though, as Bundanon have made it clear they're pretty cool about that sort of thing PROVIDED we alert them to it beforehand, which i'm happy to do. Maybe we could even flag it as a possibility with them?
On one hand D and J seem at first glance a long way from where Rhi seems to be at (as per her last post), but on a practical front the gap is probably not really such a big deal - we'll all be there in just over two weeks anyway, and given that's likely to be the next time we'll see each other, it seems to be the best time to work all these things out.
With a yummy meal in our tummy, a glass of red and an amazingly inspirational backdrop - and two weeks to explore all this and more - I think we'll all be pinching ourselves as to what a great opportunity we have. I'm really excited about it and hope people aren't getting too stressed out; we're friends above and beyond all this and i'm really pleased to have been included in this - anything that comes out of it is is simply a bonus on top of a great couple of weeks together.
You guys are all neat by the way, if i hadn't reminded you lately.
Bxx
Rhi wrote:
Thanks Ben! You rock.
I think we all agree we won’t have a shiny finished product at the end of two weeks.
But what do we expect to have? As Ben mentioned, I don’t think that on a practical front Dan’s and Julian’s ideas are so far off from mine. Let me clarify a point in my last post: rather than saying we needed to agree on an expected outcome, I should have said we needed to be sure our expectations for the residency aligned (an expected outcome could be no outcome? a collection of materials?): I was worried that what I saw as differences in expectations could easily lead to tension.
After Blackheath though I was under the impression that everyone was leaning towards a site-specific artwork - am glad I raised the issue…
So, while we’re all getting our expectations on the table.
At the end of two weeks I hope we’ll have a good collection of ideas, inspiration, material etc. I also want to have an idea of a finished product(s) we might aim for (for which we might aim – just for you Ben!) and a commitment to work towards this. If the ideas we come up with don't spark with everyone (and I don’t expect we’ll know until partway through our stay) then I also think it is possible for just some of us to commit to a project or projects.
By the way, I like Dan’s suggestion that one outcome could be writing a few articles on the collaborative process for a few magazines – but am also hoping for more…
I’m also interested in Dan’s concerns about site-specific artwork: (the musicologist in you never sleeps!) I know that terms applied to art forms tend to come burdened with histories and layers of meaning, and without a comprehensive understanding of these it would be easy to create something naïve and uninformed. I think I feel less constricted by this than you Dan, because I’ve been using the term (as lay-people tend to do), much more loosely. I'd been thinking of it as an artwork that relates to a specific site… so maybe I should use another term… place-focused? geographically-inspired? locationally-stimulated?
By the way: I’d love, but don’t necessarily expect, to produce something kick-arse. There are many aspects of art that are like a trade – you have to practise in order to become better, and I know I need to be working towards a commitment to make sure I put aside the time to practise. We are all going to be pracising collaboration - and there needs to be places and spaces in which artists are allowed to experiment (and fail) in order to produce artists that have the skills to produce quality art… and in my mind Bundanon is one of those places...
Two points in regard to the blog:
Are people committed to contributing to this? It would be good to get a realistic idea view of where people are at. If anyone is reluctant can they say so now? Likewise if people see it as being on hold until after Bundanon…
If everyone is still keen, should the last emails from Dan, Julian, Ben and me all go up there?
Some random creative ideas I’m mulling over at the moment:
Five senses art. If at some point some one were to create a site-specific artwork I would be interested in engaging all the senses… expect maybe taste… or maybe also taste… how many artworks are there that include smells? I’m also interested in this from the aspect of wanting to exercise some control over an audience’s reactions in terms of creating a particular mood or ambiance… I find the power of music to manipulate emotions fascinating and would at some point like to explore this further. In a way it fits into our discussions on perspectives. If two people saw the same room from different angles with different lighting and different music playing and different smells but were told the same story, how would their reactions compare? What if the story was different and everything else was the same.
Art within art. I’ve pasted an Arthur Boyd self-portrait below. There is also an Albert Tucker photo of Arthur Boyd in front of this self-portrait that “captures the sense of the shared creative environment in which the 1940s portraits were painted”. I like the idea of art that becomes environment and environment that becomes art… photos of artworks and their interactions with the creator/the audience/the environment would be one way to explore this.
Dan wrote:
well it's good to hear we're vaguely on the same wavelength... but I have to admit now I'm terribly confused because it seemed so clear to me that there was a push at the Blackheath workshop to decide on what we were going to create... anyway, it doesn't matter. It's clearer now... and a huge relief...
so just to clarify :
AIMS:
1. to workshop, experiment and explore ideas collaboratively;
2. explore collaborative process itself;
3. research site-specific/environmental art;
4. assess materials gathered/created at end of 2 weeks
5. decide on possibility of future project at end of 2 weeks
Serena: what are your thoughts?
D
Serena wrote:
Hey All,
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and perspectives on it all and thanks to ben for the organizational email (which I’ll look at today);
As I said, Rhi pretty much summed up how I feel about things.
I am looking for the 2 weeks to be a major ‘gathering of material’. For me, this will include spending time composing music, writing stuff for radio and hopefully recording for radiophonic/installationy type stuff. If we go for the radiophonic work for ABC then I’m concerned I won’t be recording at a high enough quality because I don’t have the microphones required. I’ve been doing pretty serious research on this and it looks like I need to spend about $800, which is a lot of money for something I’m unsure how much I will use outside of our project.
I’d really like to have us all working on material for a set project or projects - ie I don’t see much point in me composing music for a string quartet if that music won’t get used in one of our collaborative projects. So that’s why I’d like to work out what we think we are working towards.
Looking back to our group proposal it appears we have said we will:
- exploring the concept of ‘place’ and ‘environment’ collaboratively and across our different artists disciplines
- explore specific sites at Bundanon and/or Riversale – eg river, forest homestead
- engage in ‘specifically designed crative tasks’ – inc improve and research
- possibly create an installation, music performance, video footage, photographic footage
- web-based discussion (which we’ve started, but seem to have shifted to email)
- finished product of all/any of the following: multi-media event, DVD/CD-ROM of critical and creative texts, music and images, 20 to 40 minute radiophonic work for ABC; website/blog; articles for Resonate.
In terms of ideas that fit in with the above, I’m interested in:
- composing music inspired by Bundanon – ideally this would go towards either a radio piece we were writing or a concert we were putting on - again this is something it would be best to know now, so that when I’m down there writing I am writing for the correct instrumentation
- doing radio stuff on the bundanon homestead kitchen – the sounds that can be made there, the role of kitchens across the life of the building (ie how much the role of the kitchen has changed). We’ll need to organise access to the kitchen if this is something we decide to do.
- Doing fictional creative writing inspired by Bundanon – but I haven’t worked in this discipline for a long time so I have a few reservations about it. Perhaps it is worth a shot.
I know I am going to have very, very limited time outside of Bundanon. So while I certainly am not aiming for a finished product in the 2 weeks (impossible!) I will be realistic and say that my ability to be part of a major project that takes up a large amount of time is pretty limited.
I’m more interested into a creative response to place and environment than a heavily researched theoretical ‘site specific’ approach – though this is influenced by the fact that I have found it difficult to find good writings about site specific artwork and most of what I have found is about artforms I’m not working in.
Dan wrote:
Serena: "I’m more interested into a creative response to place and environment than a heavily researched theoretical ‘site specific’ approach"
do you mean "place and environment" from a physical perspective? A physical environment? As opposed to "place and environment being a community of people or a more abstract idea. And what do you mean by a heavily researched theoretical approach?
I’d really like to have us all working on material for a set project or projects - ie I don’t see much point in me composing music for a string quartet if that music won’t get used in one of our collaborative projects. So that’s why I’d like to work out what we think we are working towards.
This is exactly what I'm not comfortable doing.
I won't be able to decide what we think we are working towards until we actually start working together. For me these kinds of decisions will evolve throughout the course of the two weeks
D
Serena wrote:
Re creative response:
I’m approaching the idea of “place and environment” merely as instigators of creativity and inspiration. So I don’t necessarily mean “place and environment” from a physical perspective” or from “community idea”. I just mean my ideas will be driven by being at Bundanon. The end work won’t necessarily reflect this particularly closely but it will be what is inspiring me.
For example the four musical compositions I wrote for Illawarra Sea Stories are written to reflect 4 different beach places. I suppose that would be a ‘response to a physical environment’ but it was also driven by my knowledge of each place (which contains more than just the physical).
BEN – you know 4 works I’m talking about. Can you add an explanation?
Re “heavily researched”
A more ‘heavily researched theoretical approach’ – would require reading and research. I think that’s interesting but I’m probably more inclined just to go for an unresearched creative response (purely due to time constraints – my primary interest being in creating art work, not in doing research).
Re working on material:
In terms of you not wanting to agree before the project what it is we will be working on – I’m fine with that given that we’ve all tried pretty hard to work this one through and haven’t reached an agreement. I have a preference for doing it the other way, but if you don’t want to go down that path I’m happy to accommodate that.
Does that clarify?
Dan wrote:
yep, that all makes perfect sense! cool cool!!
Serena wrote:
Ace!
Ben wrote:
I'll try on the 4 works explanation...
What I think Serena means is that you don't listen to the pieces and necessarily go "hey, that sounds just like Kiama in winter, or Bulli in summer", or "that's a sea serpent", yet it's in there - it's about a starting point and a framework, a kernel of truth from which the works sprout and beyond which pretty much anything can happen.
These places and times are carried in there in the way it seems S wants Bundanon to be 'in there', they are a product of and interaction with a 'place and environment' that is both sensory and more, that is the visible and the hidden. It's the social and the natural, but also the ephemeral. Beyond that, it's the vibe/spirit/call it what you will. So it's not just "here's the sound of a wave/ a tree in the wind being (re)produced", but "here's the feeling you get from these things, in this place, at this fleeting moment".
I think I made this point at Blackheath, but I believe our different needs/preferences partly reflect our approach to art, but also the forms in which we are working.
Photography is very much site-based, although I'm planning on messing around with that more than I usually do. It's often responsive, and steered by the moment.
Words are fairly malleable, so writing can spring out of the blue and needs only rely upon itself to make a certain amount of sense, which can then change according to contexts. This is simplistic, but more true I think than for music, where the language is dependent on performance, which has a form and a time and a location that's not as flexible.
Although I don't compose music, my understanding is that it relies to an extent on a 'framework' of sorts, an understanding of what instrumentation it's for, which will depend on:
a) inspiration and sounds that emerge in one's head, and the translation of this into a tangible form, but also
b) practicalities - who is going to play this? how will it be heard?
Writing and photography has its own central form to begin with, which can then mutate into various directions. Music seems to need to start further down the track and need more of a guiding principal.
It's in these differences and crossing-points that friction can occur, but don't forget that friction is the point at which sparks occur.
meanwhile.... Rhi asked in her email:
"If everyone is still keen, should the last emails from Dan, Julian, Ben and me all go up [on the blog]?"I think this would be a good idea, and I'd also be interested in Dan posting those Real Time links she emailed us yesterday, as I think there's some crucial points in them quite central to our projects worth some comments.
Bxx
Serena wrote:
Well put Ben – I think you’ve mastered the words thing better than I and were able to add some helpful stuff in.
Dan wrote:
some of my photography is probably a good example of this ben. It's very abstract and texturally-based but often contains the essence of a place hidden in there somewhere...
yeah, I guess all this conversation should all go on the blog... it's far less daunting in an email though... less eyes on it.... if I get a burst of energy on the weekend I'll post them up...
D
Serena wrote:
My computer wouldn’t let me open this … maybe you can bring it to Bundanon. I’m interested in looking at photos and then trying to ‘translate’ those into music/sound or composition (and no, I’m not getting into the whole composer/creative artist/sound artist debate, let’s not go there).
Ben wrote:
you should be able to see it here Serena, through the magic of the interwebs...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/daniellecarey/2178047262
Serena wrote:
Oohhh. Lovely. Great movement Dan.
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